Post by hrafnr on May 24, 2008 11:26:04 GMT -5
'The road goes ever on and on, Down from the door where it began,"
Point for point on the commentary and questions in the Parliament thread on leadership. I posted it here so I don't hijack my own thread.
I believe it needs to be someone who will be:
1) In line with the primarily social nature of The Pillagers
2) Able and willing to interact with like-minded players both without a Kin, and in other Kinships.
3) Willing to spend at least 10-20 hours a week in Middle-earth.
4) Is willing to actively represent The Pillagers at kinship summits, social outings, etc... Even if it means not questing with friends on a particular night.
5) Is willing to fairly treat ALL Pillagers and ensure their individual needs are at least addressed.
I agree with what people are saying there in terms of the need of a Kinleader. And a definition of 'what a kinleader' means to the Pillagers. And from what I can see of the basic course of discussion I am not that person long term. And I feel it irresponsible to not put someone there who will do their best, 100% to make PoP prosper.
As for Rhavaniel's comment it is true: we were in Alpha 2. That is, less than 2 weeks after the very first version of the game went live in August 2006. That was a long time ago and it was very very exciting and rewarding. Being a long time Tolkien reader this was the game I had gotten back into computer gaming to play... for the chance to explore and role-play Middle-earth. With all other computer games in between just a distraction.
It is a little known fact that I was the person (as jrharford on the boards) to actually propose and outline a brewing component to the devs. They and other players took it and ran and I am extremely proud of it. I had several one on one conversations with them early on about various aspects of game development, and they took the suggestions of myself and many others. They personally responded to concerns and complaints, and this policy of serious involvement won me over even though I knew the game itself would be under development for a long time.
Overall I am very happy with the way the game turned out but lets face it... Middle-earth is massive and the Tolkien Ent. licensing complicates things. I followed the development of the game from its early UO like design plans in 2000 - as MEO - to eventually Turbine's LOTRO and through out remained in contact with members of the various communities. I'm not inflating my own ego, just illustrating that I have a serious emotional investment in LOTRO beyond what I consider most other "online games".
I don't speak of sour grapes or disillusionment here. But the reality is the game needs a lot more time and money to be fully realized in terms of content scope and land mass. And I'm willing to wait around for that. But not necessarily remain 100% active through out due to my own time and energies.
The game is still the best fully functional MMO on the market IMO. However... It is an MMO. By its nature the structure limits the player - not allows for full creative reign.
The crafting is exactly what we all wanted. The social and housing elements are finely in place. There are a few things which still bother me (examples: the 'litter the landscape' with more or less random target animals and the still relatively small land mass in scale to Tolkien's maps...). Quite contrary to my opinions of Warhammer Online or Age of Conan - this game should have had NO development resources geared towards PVP aside perhaps from plot based battles such as Helms Deep style instances which you can opt in as part of the epic story line. No matter how cool the Wargs are - the PVP here is redundant, one-dimensional and boring - and really adds nothing to the greater game. I think the resources could have been spent in say... more world building. Just my opinions of course and none of those are game-breakers for me.
I am still hoping long term for more actual player produced content. There is no real world building (player run towns, shops, etc...) in the game and this is probably not in the works. So at level cap, and having seen most of the content more than once I feel like I need a break or risk complete disinterest. This limits true role-play and limits that term to chat-room style socializing. This isn't the fault of LOTRO. This is what most people want in a game, especially those coming from *cough* other games.
As far as role-playing Sharliana hit it squarely. I come from a background of pen and paper RPGs in which the goal is to create a fantastic, communal imagination that everyone could tell a story in. This is no dig against The Pillagers or Landroval - but in general in MMOs, RP servers/Kin have come to mean "social" (vs. progress) and not "immersion". And in most cases the RP environments also mean "a few less not a very nice persons". But not always.
And to fully role-play in these environments requires a level of self-immersion and discipline almost as adherent as raiding. I would do it - even to the point of turning off all other chat channels, and only talking to those around me in '/say' - but I doubt many others would be so interested.
Upon my more regular return to LOTRO I am strongly considering starting a full RP, in character story-line based kinship (vs. RPing being primarily singles mixers and chatting at Inns) in which anyone in POP would be automatically granted access to if they desired. This wouldn't be my full time thing - but when I wanted heavy RP - would allow for that. And believe it or not - PoP was a lot like this in the early months. I would remain a PoP member with some of my characters. But right now... I don't have the energy or desire to run a kinship at all much less of that IC intensity.
As far as raiding, I am interested in the high end raids as a way to see the content. But it does require regular attendance and scheduling - and generally a body of at least 1.5 the number of folks you actually need to do the raid, who are serious about being standbys. You have to want to raid because you want to progress with intent, not because you have nothing better to do that night. Because in general, despite this being a game - raiding is often not light entertainment and does become stressful. Long term I will look into alliance raids with other Kinships but right now our lives are a bit too busy to organize that - and I won't commit to joint raids (such as Palantiri Helegrod) unless I know I will be there. And right now my attendance would be sketchy at best.
I only posted this long diatribe to give people a clearer idea of who I am in terms of this particular game. And why I'm choosing to take a break from it and step down as Kin-Leader. I have many real life friends (of 10 + years) in this Kin as well as lots of new friends. So it isn't about dumping out on all of you.
PoP - as an online social unit - is the absolute best I've ever seen with many fun and friendly people. I have no complaints there. However much of my life is offline these days and when I do go online - I am actually there less for socializing, and more to play a game that either allows me to role-play intensively or see new or high end content (or in the case of new games - entirely different environments). I frankly care less about people knowing me in Middle-earth, and more about knowing Hrafnr, Bragi and even Porter.
I pay monthly but will likely always have a LOTRO account. But I think being in it for the long haul sometimes requires a vacation.
So, thanks for sticking through the ramble.
See you in Middle-earth!
Point for point on the commentary and questions in the Parliament thread on leadership. I posted it here so I don't hijack my own thread.
I believe it needs to be someone who will be:
1) In line with the primarily social nature of The Pillagers
2) Able and willing to interact with like-minded players both without a Kin, and in other Kinships.
3) Willing to spend at least 10-20 hours a week in Middle-earth.
4) Is willing to actively represent The Pillagers at kinship summits, social outings, etc... Even if it means not questing with friends on a particular night.
5) Is willing to fairly treat ALL Pillagers and ensure their individual needs are at least addressed.
I agree with what people are saying there in terms of the need of a Kinleader. And a definition of 'what a kinleader' means to the Pillagers. And from what I can see of the basic course of discussion I am not that person long term. And I feel it irresponsible to not put someone there who will do their best, 100% to make PoP prosper.
As for Rhavaniel's comment it is true: we were in Alpha 2. That is, less than 2 weeks after the very first version of the game went live in August 2006. That was a long time ago and it was very very exciting and rewarding. Being a long time Tolkien reader this was the game I had gotten back into computer gaming to play... for the chance to explore and role-play Middle-earth. With all other computer games in between just a distraction.
It is a little known fact that I was the person (as jrharford on the boards) to actually propose and outline a brewing component to the devs. They and other players took it and ran and I am extremely proud of it. I had several one on one conversations with them early on about various aspects of game development, and they took the suggestions of myself and many others. They personally responded to concerns and complaints, and this policy of serious involvement won me over even though I knew the game itself would be under development for a long time.
Overall I am very happy with the way the game turned out but lets face it... Middle-earth is massive and the Tolkien Ent. licensing complicates things. I followed the development of the game from its early UO like design plans in 2000 - as MEO - to eventually Turbine's LOTRO and through out remained in contact with members of the various communities. I'm not inflating my own ego, just illustrating that I have a serious emotional investment in LOTRO beyond what I consider most other "online games".
I don't speak of sour grapes or disillusionment here. But the reality is the game needs a lot more time and money to be fully realized in terms of content scope and land mass. And I'm willing to wait around for that. But not necessarily remain 100% active through out due to my own time and energies.
The game is still the best fully functional MMO on the market IMO. However... It is an MMO. By its nature the structure limits the player - not allows for full creative reign.
The crafting is exactly what we all wanted. The social and housing elements are finely in place. There are a few things which still bother me (examples: the 'litter the landscape' with more or less random target animals and the still relatively small land mass in scale to Tolkien's maps...). Quite contrary to my opinions of Warhammer Online or Age of Conan - this game should have had NO development resources geared towards PVP aside perhaps from plot based battles such as Helms Deep style instances which you can opt in as part of the epic story line. No matter how cool the Wargs are - the PVP here is redundant, one-dimensional and boring - and really adds nothing to the greater game. I think the resources could have been spent in say... more world building. Just my opinions of course and none of those are game-breakers for me.
I am still hoping long term for more actual player produced content. There is no real world building (player run towns, shops, etc...) in the game and this is probably not in the works. So at level cap, and having seen most of the content more than once I feel like I need a break or risk complete disinterest. This limits true role-play and limits that term to chat-room style socializing. This isn't the fault of LOTRO. This is what most people want in a game, especially those coming from *cough* other games.
As far as role-playing Sharliana hit it squarely. I come from a background of pen and paper RPGs in which the goal is to create a fantastic, communal imagination that everyone could tell a story in. This is no dig against The Pillagers or Landroval - but in general in MMOs, RP servers/Kin have come to mean "social" (vs. progress) and not "immersion". And in most cases the RP environments also mean "a few less not a very nice persons". But not always.
And to fully role-play in these environments requires a level of self-immersion and discipline almost as adherent as raiding. I would do it - even to the point of turning off all other chat channels, and only talking to those around me in '/say' - but I doubt many others would be so interested.
Upon my more regular return to LOTRO I am strongly considering starting a full RP, in character story-line based kinship (vs. RPing being primarily singles mixers and chatting at Inns) in which anyone in POP would be automatically granted access to if they desired. This wouldn't be my full time thing - but when I wanted heavy RP - would allow for that. And believe it or not - PoP was a lot like this in the early months. I would remain a PoP member with some of my characters. But right now... I don't have the energy or desire to run a kinship at all much less of that IC intensity.
As far as raiding, I am interested in the high end raids as a way to see the content. But it does require regular attendance and scheduling - and generally a body of at least 1.5 the number of folks you actually need to do the raid, who are serious about being standbys. You have to want to raid because you want to progress with intent, not because you have nothing better to do that night. Because in general, despite this being a game - raiding is often not light entertainment and does become stressful. Long term I will look into alliance raids with other Kinships but right now our lives are a bit too busy to organize that - and I won't commit to joint raids (such as Palantiri Helegrod) unless I know I will be there. And right now my attendance would be sketchy at best.
I only posted this long diatribe to give people a clearer idea of who I am in terms of this particular game. And why I'm choosing to take a break from it and step down as Kin-Leader. I have many real life friends (of 10 + years) in this Kin as well as lots of new friends. So it isn't about dumping out on all of you.
PoP - as an online social unit - is the absolute best I've ever seen with many fun and friendly people. I have no complaints there. However much of my life is offline these days and when I do go online - I am actually there less for socializing, and more to play a game that either allows me to role-play intensively or see new or high end content (or in the case of new games - entirely different environments). I frankly care less about people knowing me in Middle-earth, and more about knowing Hrafnr, Bragi and even Porter.
I pay monthly but will likely always have a LOTRO account. But I think being in it for the long haul sometimes requires a vacation.
So, thanks for sticking through the ramble.
See you in Middle-earth!