pepper
New Member
ninja!
Posts: 409
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Post by pepper on Mar 2, 2009 11:49:08 GMT -5
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Post by Loraxx on Mar 2, 2009 12:26:18 GMT -5
Wow that is a long list !!!
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Post by Delaney on Mar 2, 2009 15:03:44 GMT -5
Since I don't play a lot of alts, I'm not really thrilled with it. It's not that I begrudge others in the least, and I know it will help lower levels move up more quickly. But I had to actively avoid leveling too quickly in Moria so as to be vaguely level-appropriate with the content. They've reduced the total exp. to get to 60, so this is going to be even more skewed now. I don't want the entire game to be played in "godmode" when you're so overpowered compared to the mobs that it's no challenge. It seems like Turbine is playing a strictly numbers game ... as long as they bring in enough new, casual players, who cares if they keep the people who started in beta? A sound business decision, I guess, but .. ugh. |
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katarnus
New Member
King of Alts
Posts: 171
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Post by katarnus on Mar 2, 2009 16:32:20 GMT -5
Since I don't play a lot of alts, I'm not really thrilled with it. It's not that I begrudge others in the least, and I know it will help lower levels move up more quickly. I don't really get this statement. If you don't play a lot of alts, and you don't begrudge anyone else.....then how exactly is it hurting someone who is already 60? You're already at max level, what difference is less xp needed to level going to make to you or anyone else who is already at max level? But I had to actively avoid leveling too quickly in Moria so as to be vaguely level-appropriate with the content. They've reduced the total exp. to get to 60, so this is going to be even more skewed now. I don't want the entire game to be played in "godmode" when you're so overpowered compared to the mobs that it's no challenge. I play a captain and not some of the more higher damage or utility classes, so I'm sure I don't understand this either, but my leveling in Moria was far from godmode and I was around 54 before I even entered the gates. I died an awful lot in my journeys in Moria and still will if I try to take on more than two or three mobs. I might have to be a better player or play a better class to understand this one, but I'm not sure. It seems like Turbine is playing a strictly numbers game ... as long as they bring in enough new, casual players, who cares if they keep the people who started in beta? A sound business decision, I guess, but .. ugh. I'm not really sure either why a founder would quit over what I'm understanding is a 12% decrease in xp needed for each level. It's a company and a business with economic concerns in mind as well as gaming ones. I'm not mad about the xp and I guess I'm just trying to understand why anyone else would be. I'm not being confrontational here, just trying to understand. Katarnus is 60 now and still gets his ass handed to him on a daily basis. I expect he will still be 60 when this change hits. Knowing the dumbass and sub-par player that I am, I expect he will still get his ass handed to him on a daily basis. I know that some of you will say the game is too easy now as it is. I realize that it probably is for some of you, but you also have to realize that it's not that easy for others. As with all patches there are good things and bad things with this one. I for one wasn't real happy with one of my core abilities being cut in half, but I was basically told to "get over it" by the community as a whole. It's just one of those things. If you enjoy playing the game you probably still will until you don't. Decreased experience needed to level isn't game breaking I don't think personally, but I could be wrong. They did it last year in WoW to help new players catch up and I don't think it's broken that game any more than it already was. |
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Post by Loraxx on Mar 3, 2009 12:23:44 GMT -5
Maybe I'm blind but what is the expected release date for book 7 updates?
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Zabrak
New Member
We are family?
Posts: 498
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Post by Zabrak on Mar 3, 2009 14:33:16 GMT -5
I don't think they announce until they're done with testing, or close to it. This is cool... Crafting Instances
As competition for crafting materials heats up, getting what you need isn’t always easy. To help alleviate the problem we looked at ways to allow crafters to get more of what they need more reliably. Enter the crafting instances! Much like the Item XP instances, these are daily repeatable quests that reward crafting materials. There are six instances; two each for prospecting, forestry, and scholar materials.
- Adventure in 6 new repeatable solo instances
- Aid the Iron Garrison in reclaiming ages-old caches of resources
- Challenging monsters that may vary each time you play through
- Reputation and Legendary Item experience
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Post by Tierawyn on Mar 3, 2009 14:51:42 GMT -5
I thought the crafting instances were a good idea too!! But as an LM, I though for sure some of the changes listed there had already been made. By way of example, here are a few: # Text for the Ancient Master was incorrectly referring to Dead rather than Men with Improvements for Warding Lore. # Removed Subtle Wizard from the Lore-master Traits. (Statistically, it was not used by LM anywhere.) # Added "Fast Loader" which removes induction from BF. (The answer to the riddle, "Why does the Burglar not have an induction for Riddle but the Lore-master has one for BF?") For one, I'm pretty sure I already have fast loader  |
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Post by Delaney on Mar 3, 2009 16:37:07 GMT -5
I don't really get this statement. If you don't play a lot of alts, and you don't begrudge anyone else.....then how exactly is it hurting someone who is already 60? You're already at max level, what difference is less xp needed to level going to make to you or anyone else who is already at max level? It's setting what could be a very bad trend to reduce monster difficulty, while simultaneously making it easier for players to level and gain strength, thus making combat easier overall. And since the change to the xp curve and more importantly, the monsters' difficulty, is across all levels, I feel it does affect my play. I don't even remotely consider myself a power gamer. I don't number crunch, I don't engage in a frantic gear chase, and I spend far more time with exploring, crafting, and other pursuits than I ever do with sheer killing. Yet, as I said, I had to actively try not to level too quickly in Moria. From the patch notes: Now the area may turn out to be even easier. Aside from the instances which require fellowships, there is one zone in Moria where I truly have to be careful. There is no really challenging solo content, unless I stupidly pull more than three at a time. I certainly understand and agree with the point that the game can't be too hard - but the flip side is it should be more than pushing buttons. It's not there now, thank goodness, nor does it look like it will be in book 7, but it's a disturbing trend. A shift back towards the middle would be nice, and I'd like to see some challenging places that are not instanced. I play a captain and not some of the more higher damage or utility classes, so I'm sure I don't understand this either, but my leveling in Moria was far from godmode and I was around 54 before I even entered the gates. I died an awful lot in my journeys in Moria and still will if I try to take on more than two or three mobs. I might have to be a better player or play a better class to understand this one, but I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure Katarnus can out DPS Delaney any day, and both are utility classes. The whole stealth thing helps a lot as far as not dying, though, and I'm lucky in that the class fits my play style exceedingly well. In thinking about this more in order to explain it, it occurred to me that in SoA, when I was at the level cap of 50, there were still plenty of places in Angmar and even in the High Reaches where I had to exercise some caution. In Moria, at 60, there doesn't seem to be as much of that. I guess a good summation of what I said above and how I feel overall is that, in my opinion, there is an increasing trend of making things easier to the point where it's tilting the overall game balance to the "easy" side. (And yes, my cynical side does see Turbine doing this for the numbers.) As I said on the game forums, I do hope I am wrong, but only time will tell. I'm not really sure either why a founder would quit over what I'm understanding is a 12% decrease in xp needed for each level. It's a company and a business with economic concerns in mind as well as gaming ones. I'm not mad about the xp and I guess I'm just trying to understand why anyone else would be. I can't speak for all founders, but I have never mentioned quitting. I do wait until changes are out to evaluate them fully. (As I even literally term it, all this all is only my opinion. Mileage may vary.) As far as the overall game goes, I do have an interest in Turbine changing what I see as the nature of the game. I'm going to be really disappointed if they decide to go more for mass appeal over game quality, especially since the game has been successful without skewing balance too badly. |
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pepper
New Member
ninja!
Posts: 409
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Post by pepper on Mar 3, 2009 17:41:10 GMT -5
After reading MadeOfLion's post on Book 7 and entering Lothlorien, it appears that finishing Book 6 makes a major impact on how the elves trust you. So, for those like me who are trying to finish Book 6 before Book 7 is released, your insanity is not unwarranted. (2.5.5 is the stuff of frustration and nightmares)
It should also be noted that you can start Book 7 without finishing Books 1-6 of Volume 2.
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Zib
New Member
Posts: 318
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Post by Zib on Mar 3, 2009 22:21:06 GMT -5
Personally, I like the changes to the Gambler line for burglars. I would like to use a bunch of those skills supported with the debuff line of mischeif maker. |
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Post by Delaney on Mar 4, 2009 12:11:04 GMT -5
Personally, I like the changes to the Gambler line for burglars. I would like to use a bunch of those skills supported with the debuff line of mischeif maker. Mischief-maker FTW! (I have 5 MM traits and the other two are Gambler. When Moria came out, most of my already selected class traits naturally fell along these lines, so it was a pretty easy choice.) |
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duri
New Member
Posts: 143
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Post by duri on Mar 4, 2009 16:07:04 GMT -5
I don't really get this statement. If you don't play a lot of alts, and you don't begrudge anyone else.....then how exactly is it hurting someone who is already 60? You're already at max level, what difference is less xp needed to level going to make to you or anyone else who is already at max level? It's setting what could be a very bad trend to reduce monster difficulty, while simultaneously making it easier for players to level and gain strength, thus making combat easier overall. And since the change to the xp curve and more importantly, the monsters' difficulty, is across all levels, I feel it does affect my play. I don't even remotely consider myself a power gamer. I don't number crunch, I don't engage in a frantic gear chase, and I spend far more time with exploring, crafting, and other pursuits than I ever do with sheer killing. Yet, as I said, I had to actively try not to level too quickly in Moria. From the patch notes: Now the area may turn out to be even easier. Aside from the instances which require fellowships, there is one zone in Moria where I truly have to be careful. There is no really challenging solo content, unless I stupidly pull more than three at a time. I certainly understand and agree with the point that the game can't be too hard - but the flip side is it should be more than pushing buttons. It's not there now, thank goodness, nor does it look like it will be in book 7, but it's a disturbing trend. A shift back towards the middle would be nice, and I'd like to see some challenging places that are not instanced. I'm pretty sure Katarnus can out DPS Delaney any day, and both are utility classes. The whole stealth thing helps a lot as far as not dying, though, and I'm lucky in that the class fits my play style exceedingly well. In thinking about this more in order to explain it, it occurred to me that in SoA, when I was at the level cap of 50, there were still plenty of places in Angmar and even in the High Reaches where I had to exercise some caution. In Moria, at 60, there doesn't seem to be as much of that. I guess a good summation of what I said above and how I feel overall is that, in my opinion, there is an increasing trend of making things easier to the point where it's tilting the overall game balance to the "easy" side. (And yes, my cynical side does see Turbine doing this for the numbers.) As I said on the game forums, I do hope I am wrong, but only time will tell. I'm not really sure either why a founder would quit over what I'm understanding is a 12% decrease in xp needed for each level. It's a company and a business with economic concerns in mind as well as gaming ones. I'm not mad about the xp and I guess I'm just trying to understand why anyone else would be. I can't speak for all founders, but I have never mentioned quitting. I do wait until changes are out to evaluate them fully. (As I even literally term it, all this all is only my opinion. Mileage may vary.) As far as the overall game goes, I do have an interest in Turbine changing what I see as the nature of the game. I'm going to be really disappointed if they decide to go more for mass appeal over game quality, especially since the game has been successful without skewing balance too badly. I agree with pretty much everything Delaney said. Not that I disagree with Katarnus, because I suppose these experiences are class-specific. I found Moria to be pretty easy to solo, and rarely did I have a real challenge unless I got in waaay over my head. (but IMO Loremasters are a very strong solo class, probably the best other than Wardens). I also thought the XP was too easy. In particular I wish I could have turned off rest XP bonus, because even though I played every day, often for a few hours or more, I had blue rest XP bonus from 50 to 60. This makes it impossible to do every quest before they becomes almost trivial in difficulty (I think I was 60 before I did any quests in the East Durin's Way, Foundations, or outside the east Gate). I dont begrudge the easier XP to others who dont play as much; far from it. I just wish there were ways you could slow down XP if you want to. I also think in the long run its detrimental to make questing too easy (quest arrows, etc). One of the best things about LotRO is the storyline, and there should be some incentive to read the quests carefully, rather than just have big beacons to show you where to go even if you havent even read the quest. Sure, this can make the game more accessible to WoW players and others, but IMO it cheapens the game and in the long run diminishes the experience that makes LotRO so different and special. My 2 coppers. |
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Hitorichan
New Member
Sharliana of Rohan
Posts: 375 
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Post by Hitorichan on Mar 4, 2009 17:17:48 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry too terribly much about the statement about them toning down the monsters from 50-60 as they've also said they're toning down DPS, especially on the legendaries, to shift the focus back to skills from the DPS arms race. I have a feeling that the encounters won't be any easier - they'll just take a bit more active effort than they do now. At least, that's my hope!
I think they could've changed it so levels 1-50 were a bit quicker and 50-60 were a bit slower, actually.
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katarnus
New Member
King of Alts
Posts: 171
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Post by katarnus on Mar 4, 2009 18:51:11 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry too terribly much about the statement about them toning down the monsters from 50-60 as they've also said they're toning down DPS, especially on the legendaries, to shift the focus back to skills from the DPS arms race. I have a feeling that the encounters won't be any easier - they'll just take a bit more active effort than they do now. At least, that's my hope! I think they could've changed it so levels 1-50 were a bit quicker and 50-60 were a bit slower, actually. I was talking to some folks last night who have actually played the patch on Bullroarer. What I was hearing from them is that the weapons we're seeing now at 59.1 dps or whatever will be brought down to around 46 or so dps. Pretty big cut. I think they were saying like a 20% decrease. But I r not math guy. They were also saying that the difference in xp was a total of 55k from 1-60. Now, 55k doesn't sound like a whole lot to me. They were also saying that the most impact on the level curve was from 1-20 from what they were seeing on test. Just what I was hearing last night. No firsthand evidence of my own. |
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pepper
New Member
ninja!
Posts: 409
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Post by pepper on Mar 4, 2009 20:27:46 GMT -5
There's a few people calculating the new curve and it appears that it's faster from 1-40, but then the climb is steeper from 40-60. IIRC, the 50-60 climb actually takes longer than it does currently.
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Bubub
New Member
Posts: 281
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Post by Bubub on Mar 4, 2009 20:33:37 GMT -5
My experience with change is that it is always darkest before dawn. Usually within a month you cannot remember what the old way was. That said....... I hope the powers to be do not make it toooo easy to level, nor tooo easy to survive ie. Moria. Not that Moria was so much easier to survive, but the experience point system was totally whacked out. I think most folks recognize that this game survives on its ability to provide enjoyment while exploring, leveling, living the story. The game is built on making the trip, not making the destination. If they think they will survive by getting folks to endgame content, they are sorely confused. My biggest gripe would be that they made a huge and enjoyable area of pre-Moria simply irrelevant. If leveling from 50-60 took half as long as 40-50, then atleast the product from CD and etc would be worth getting. Now why even bother (except for 45 class items) when you can enter Eregion and within a day or two be receiving better gear from simple slayer quest drops.  I am sure it will all work out, even the giant nerf ball heading for my hunter And my final thought, "The worst day in LOTR is better than the best day in AoC" |
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Zib
New Member
Posts: 318
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Post by Zib on Mar 4, 2009 22:14:24 GMT -5
Oh thank goodness they are slowing down 50 - 60. Why would I want to be able to finally do stuff with my friends who are level 60? The sky isn't falling, but I don't consider this good news.  |
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Post by Loraxx on Mar 5, 2009 8:23:09 GMT -5
And my final thought, "The worst day in LOTR is better than the best day in AoC" AMEN |
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Post by Tierawyn on Mar 5, 2009 10:06:27 GMT -5
Well I'm finally getting into higher level content after quite some time. I'm currently L42 and getting close to my legendary skills - and maybe some great armor. I'm really tempted to stay out of Eregion as long as possible so that I can experience as much SoA content as possible... But I kind of have to force myself to play that way. I will probably get weak and go get my Legendary Weapon around 50... but I don't want to miss Forochel, Angmar, and MM stuff. This is why I don't want level from 40-50 to go too fast. However, as one who has done 1-40 twice (ok, once was 38).. I would welcome the change for bringing up new alts. I would never want this to be done at the expense of new player experience. I guess I'll have to trust Turbine that they are balancing the two.
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duri
New Member
Posts: 143
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Post by duri on Mar 5, 2009 12:05:29 GMT -5
I think when all is said and done, by far the most important result of this patch will be the reduction in weapon dps. Frankly it is beyond me how they let that get out of beta - everything I read once the NDA was lifted made it real clear that dps had gotten a huge boost, and classes that relied on spell/support classes did not. If this were a PvP game, it could have ruined the game, it was so obviously imbalanced. I just hope they dont swing it back too far the other way. In any event, its better not to give someone something, than to give it and then take it away. Not sure what Turbine was thinking when they let weapon dps scale up so much in MoM - it was just begging to be reduced later.
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Zabrak
New Member
We are family?
Posts: 498
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Post by Zabrak on Mar 5, 2009 13:09:03 GMT -5
I think when all is said and done, by far the most important result of this patch will be the reduction in weapon dps. I agree! AAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! |
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Bubub
New Member
Posts: 281
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Post by Bubub on Mar 5, 2009 20:40:51 GMT -5
Powerleveling the minstrel.......powerleveling the minstrel.......
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